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Sean Stannard-Stockton

I don't know about this argument, Jeff. Would you argue the same about MBAs and for-profit management? Certainly, hands on experience is critical and getting a degree does not replace real life work, but is it really a bad thing that academia is realizing that managing a nonprofit is a area worthy of advanced study?

Renata, if hiring for a for-profit management position, of course you'd prefer the manager with no MBA and 25 years of experience to a 26-year-old MBA. But that's a false setup. Given a individual with any amount of experience, wouldn't them having a MBA be an added positive?

steve

I'd much rather have someone with real, hands-on experience than someone with only an educational certificate

Education and experience are not mutually exclusive. It's not an either-or proposition. That's the point that's being missed in this post and in several comments.

The growth of these management programs will ultimately help produce a new generation of leaders with both experience and management training (which, let's face it, the sector desperately needs).

It boggles my mind why this anyone would view this as something to be feared.

Real-life nonprofits are like this: Each one is different from all the others. Running each one is a matter of understanding approximately a zillion details. A good framework of theory might help, but only a little.

This actually speaks to a problem to be addressed rather than a reality to adapt to. Thousands of nonprofits reinventing the wheel, failing to learn from one another, failing to recognize and share effective practices, treating their challenges as unique when in fact they are common - these are problems that management training can help address, not a fact of life that renders education irrelevant.


Sandy Rees

Jeff,

My gut reaction is that I'd much rather have someone with real, hands-on experience than someone with only an educational certificate, and that goes for any profession. I'm sure that some educational programs are better than others, and in time, we as an industry will recognize them.

Maya Norton

Dear Jeff,

Interesting that you write about this subject now. I too read the article and also wrote a post that I decided not to publish because I have not come to a conclusion on higher degrees in philanthropy-- although it is something I think a lot about.

Unlike other degrees or certifications that are more theoretical, the nonprofit field is based heavily on results. Experience is key, making the practicum component of nonprofit degree coursework essential. An MBA who can't turn a profit or a MSc who can't raise funds for her organization have no purpose in their respective companies.

In my interactions and conversations with nonprofit professionals, it is clear that there are many professionals who have good intentions but are lacking in context and practical expertise. Without education on this subject, each individual is reinventing the wheel and the whole field suffers. I believe we can do better and that nonprofit education can make this happen.

Maya Norton

The New Jew: Blogging Jewish Philanthropy

John G.

Jeff:

Great discussion and I am excited to see this being discussed. I earned an MBA and consult with nonprofit organizations everyday. You are missing a key component of this discussion.

Many nonprofit managers and executive directors come from education, social work or other backgrounds with no management experience. I agree with the previous poster regarding students right out of school with "nonprofit" degrees.

The teachers, artists, social workers and program staff are the ones who will benefit from these type of certificate and degree granting programs. It's not about theory vs. reality. There are practicums and other course work that brings reality into the classroom. Mainly because so many of the teachers are practitioners, not academics. That was my experience.

The executive directors I work with are in desperate need of professional development as are their staffs. This gets short shrift in the nonprofit sector. It's nuts and bolts stuff, reading a financial statement, managing a staff effectively, managing a Board, this is not theoretical.

Keep up the good work. Also, the 255 number is exaggerated a bit. Many are certificate only programs and may only offer three to five courses. Other are Public Administration degrees, which focus on government and MBA programs that offer a concentration in nonprofit management. In reality there are only a handful of quality masters level programs around the country.

steve

Given a choice between hiring someone with two years experience of almost any kind working for a nonprofit, and someone fresh out of a two-year NP college-based program, can you guess which one I would hire?


This is only one scenario, though. What if you were to choose between two candidates of equal experience, one with a NP management degree, one without?

Renata Rafferty, Author "Don't Just Give It Away," Foreword by Paul Newman

Jeff -- This is my first visit to your blog and I'll definitely be back. I agree with you 100% regarding nonprofit certification and degree programs. Given a choice between hiring someone with two years experience of almost any kind working for a nonprofit, and someone fresh out of a two-year NP college-based program, can you guess which one I would hire?

Would I hire someone right out of a college-based NP program for a management position? Not unless it was for a non-management position. And I'd rather hire a well-educated (can read, write and think critically) new BA from almost any field before I'd hire an NP degree newbie. I would be concerned about their coping (or not)with the differences between the textbook world of nonprofit management and the real world of charity. I'd be less concerned if the bulk of the degree or certificate program was experientially based -- with students working on the inside of many different sizes and type of nonprofits for more than a day or a week.

I know this sounds harsh, and I do not mean to demean any individual or program. I do believe, however, that many college-based programs were established for revenue-generating purposes simply because our sector looks to be a hot market.

The true test will come 20 to 50 years from now when it will be possible to study differences between organizations run by degreed NP executives and those run by folks who came to the sector as most of us did.

Thanks for opening up the topic ...
Renata Rafferty

steve

Jeff,

Do you feel the same way about business school?

Should nonprofit employers value management degrees less than corporations value them? If not, why?

Also, aren't most nonprofit management programs (like most business programs) oriented around professional practice at least as much as 'theory?'

After all, the vast majority of nonprofit management MPAs are going into the nonprofit workforce, not academic careers (as the article mentions, there is thus far only one Ph.D program in philanthropy, and it isn't even old enough to have any graduates).

Robert Rosenthal

Yo Jeff: I'm sure you've seen marketing managers -- including CMOs -- with lousy marketing instincts and little or no useful training in the field. Just about anyone can claim to be a "marketing pro." That's why mediocrity is so pervasive in our line of work. I think certification is a step in the right direction.

Lisa

Hi Jeff,
I've been reading your blog for awhile now, and one of the reasons I do is because I am looking for that reality. However, I think you shouldn't lump all programs into one "theory-rich" group, because there are those that rely on professionals to teach. These instructors/professors worked long years(and often still work)in their field, so they can offer their students theory tempered with reality. I used to work in a museum that was run by academic types, and their lack of managerial skills ran potential long-term employees out of the place. So I understand where you're coming from, and is one of the reasons why I chose the program I did, for its practical aspects. I just wanted to emphasize (and in a roundabout way support you!) the need to look at each and every program for the real world skills they might offer.

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